| Subject: | Re: Logging roads and trailers |
| From: | Jeff Palmer |
| Date: | Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:11:48 -0500 |
I surrender, both of you!! Enough already :) Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:59 PM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote: > > There Will Only Ever Be 1 John Prine & invoking Him as an excuse for > > Copying & Pasting an EMail Subject Line where a Normal Salutation belongs > > is quite the insult to Him,, IMHO ~ > > ORR~ DeanB > >> On 21 Jul , 2020, at 2:09 PM, Roger Whittaker wrote: >> >> Dear questioning >> >> I was raised by a house ful of John Prine recordings ") RIP J Prine >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:42 AM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote: >> Dear Seemingly UnAble to address People By Name >> >> What's Up With That, RW ?? >> >> ORR ~ DeanB >> >>> On 21 Jul , 2020, at 12:43 AM, Roger Whittaker wrote: >>> >>> Dear Logging adventure folks >>> >>> "There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe >>> we can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how >>> wrong/stupid/naive the rest of us are." >>> >>> I see no assumptions -- I see a list of questions that anyone attempting to >>> travel on an INDUSTRIAL ROAD potentially filled with INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH >>> traffic should ask their self - >>> i also see a list of stuff that I have encountered while working in that >>> environment - >>> >>> Your original question was about being a newbie on logging roads and how a >>> trailer would handle - >>> indeed it is "I know several of you travel the logging roads for >>> camping/exploring. >>> *Having just done this last week, for my first time*," >>> >>> I still believe more importantly the question should be how does the >>> operator handle self and are they prepared for the unpredictability of >>> the situation they are entering >>> >>> You can take the remarks any way you like :) >>> >>> Not trying to point out how stupid anyone is - >>> Caps are for emphasis - >>> currently in my community there is a raging battle going on between people >>> who want trails to be walking only and those who utilize mountain bike - >>> this is just a smaller argument of the access to logging roads and the >>> belief that tax payers pay for them so why should there be gates and cement >>> blocks or rocks blocking access - >>> Typically the roads are private or paid for by stumpage and maintained by >>> logging company - typically the logging company may be liable for what >>> happens on them - >>> And as said -- in Canada the logging roads are often part of FN territory - >>> with many restrictions - LIke right now - FN have restrictions up >>> against any outsiders entering their lands due to COVID - >>> >>> I have had to put work plans together to manage public access to areas that >>> the public thought they had a right to enter and camp in - or drive through >>> - or simply hang around exploring for the day - >>> After plan implemented - we have to go back three days later and replace >>> all the barriers due to destruction completed by those who wanted to travel >>> the area - regardless of fish habitat or danger due to potential of dam >>> opening - or active blasting etc >>> >>> If you did not know there was so many pieces to the puzzle - that is fine - >>> many dont - no need to be 'hurt' because the pieces of the puzzle have been >>> presented - >>> >>> I do annual Safety talks for logging companies - i speak for close to 6 >>> hours on a day that starts at 7 am - >>> WCB rep speaks for the other hour - >>> I have investigated numerous incidents - >>> I have read a bazziolon reports of other incidents - on logging roads and >>> countless other terrain - >>> I charge 1000$ for the day of Safety talk - typically anywhere from 50 to >>> 100 guys & gals in the room >>> >>> I also hosted two seperate safety conferences with budgets >10K for the day >>> - >>> 100% supported by community - and free for workers to attend - >>> Safety is 2 things - being prepared for the eventual likely hood of an >>> event and dealing with the event when it happens >>> >>> I begin every talk by asking for the stupid people to raise thier hand - no >>> one does (maybe i should have started my response that way ??_ ) >>> No one ever raises their hand and i say _ Good I am glad to see that >>> becasue I dont think any company hires stupid people - So I do not want to >>> hear foreman or supervisors saying what ever incident we are talking about >>> today was just stupid - or you cant fix stupid - because stupid does not >>> work here - >>> >>> I have been doing these talks since 2001 >>> and i am not even the smartest log in the wood pile - indeed all my real >>> credentials are is i will stand and deliver for 5-7 hours and still make >>> sense - >>> >>> Enjoy the journey :) >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:40 PM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Roger, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the insights but wow that’s a lot of caps key and caffeine. >>>> There are a ton of assumptions (most negative sounding in nature). Maybe we >>>> can have a conversation instead of trying to prove how wrong/stupid/naive >>>> the rest of us are. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:21 PM Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Would be Logging Road Traveler >>>>> >>>>> I spent a number of years as safety manager for a builder of logging >>>>> roads - >>>>> On a logging road - ANY TIME IS LOADED LOGGING TRUCK TIME - >>>>> >>>>> There are some who view these roads as free for all to use any time they >>>>> want - >>>>> This is not the case - >>>>> Question # one - are your tires rated for stones and extra rough road - >>>>> are all your joints and steering components greased - >>>>> Question # two if you have a failure of any of items can you get off >>>>> road on your own power - so as not to block road - >>>>> Question # three Who is your travel plan filed with - does cell phone >>>>> work there or do you have a HOT SPOT with text capability - >>>>> Question # Four - You know that AAA or CAA will not come and fetch you - >>>>> >>>>> A> In Canada very often the logging road will lead to - or cross an >>>>> Indian Reservation and that First Nation may have jurisdictional sway over >>>>> traffic flow and permissions to travel >>>>> B> Nearly every logging road has a sign at the place where the Logging >>>>> Road intersects highway - that sign will delineate behaviors to be followed >>>>> on the road - during active haul times - >>>>> ACTIVE HAUL TIMES ARE ANYTIME - even if the sign offers typical times - >>>>> you could meet a truck coming 'DOWN LOADED' at any time - Lets say the >>>>> logging roads active hours are 3 am to 3 pm monday to saturday - you >>>>> arrive at road side at 5 pm saturday evening - >>>>> 1. DO YOU have a radio that can be tuned to frequency used by haulers on >>>>> that road? >>>>> 2. DO YOU know for sure that every truck up Empty has Come down loaded ? >>>>> 3. Do you have any way to announce your intention to travel up ? >>>>> 4. Are Loaded Trucks your only concern ? >>>>> 5. Do you know that the mechanics and service trucks have all booked off >>>>> for the night and are safely off road ? >>>>> 6. DO you know what a turn out on the road is for ? >>>>> 7. DO YOU know if logger's ambulance is not heading out with injured >>>>> workers - they typically DO NOT have sirens - >>>>> >>>>> THERE ARE SEVERAL SECTIONS Around here that are deemed LEFT HAND UP - >>>>> LEFT HAND DOWN - does driver understand fully the consequence of not being >>>>> on the proper side of the road?? >>>>> Then there is the idea of your own trailer - >>>>> 1. If you have a trailer breakdown along the way does your vehicle have >>>>> the ability to pull trailer off the road ? >>>>> 2. if you are caught in a jackpot - not even your own jackpot - lets say >>>>> a logging truck has left the road and you are held up from your desired >>>>> camping spot while they extricate the upset truck - which may involve >>>>> getting a load of heavy equipment (or two) past your rig - can you get your >>>>> rig sufficiently off the road -- DO YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG ?? DO >>>>> YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK UP YOUR RIG IN THE DARK ? CAN YOU DO A THREE POINT >>>>> REVERSE TURN WITH YOUR RIG ?? -- IF YOU ANSWER no TO ANY OF THESE - you >>>>> should not be on Logging road with a rig -- and preferably you should be >>>>> able to answer yes to all three questions - If you are answering no to any >>>>> of these three questions you need to practice - Not a Joke !! >>>>> >>>>> More over if you are held up are you or your guests going to be idiots >>>>> demanding that road be cleared to let you get on your way - (real world >>>>> events - that happened to me ) more than once - and once during active >>>>> blasting - had to get local law enforcement involved in that one - >>>>> Along with that police or first responders may not have a clue where you >>>>> are or how to get to you if you require rescue (do you have a GPS device ) >>>>> NOT A phone but a dedicated GPS - >>>>> >>>>> Second to that - what do you do when you reach a rope across road that >>>>> has a sign remarking about active falling - or active blasting - >>>>> DO YOU take rope down and continue because the sign is only to inform >>>>> loggers and you are not a logger ??? >>>>> DO YOU Take rope down and leave it on the ground because it is after 3 PM >>>>> on a Friday - the loggers can put it back when they come to work ? >>>>> Do you know what blaster signals mean ?? do you know how close to the >>>>> back of a logging truck you can travel to be outside the swing zone ? >>>>> >>>>> Sometimes two or three loaded trucks will head down and only the first >>>>> one will call miles on the way down - the first one goes by and the haplass >>>>> traveler pulls back onto road only to meet truck #2 head on - and yes this >>>>> is a real world event that happened - >>>>> >>>>> One afternoon i was heading down - part way down i had that huge urge of >>>>> nature calling right now - in only the way a rough and bouncy logging road >>>>> can produce in the late afternoon - >>>>> I stopped my pick up - I had not heard a call out on the radio -- but a >>>>> little voice in my head told me to pull as far to the left as possible - so >>>>> before exiting truck i did that - pulled my pick up off into a turn out - >>>>> and let nature call - just as I was finishing that 'streaming episode' a >>>>> loaded truck down roared past my location - I had no idea they were there - >>>>> - >>>>> >>>>> on another occasion I was coming down and met a camper on way up - truck >>>>> with camper and loaded with family kids and all - I let them know there was >>>>> both active falling and active blasting on going that day - they told me >>>>> not to mind about them as they were going up early to get a good spot - -- >>>>> They had no radio =--- with out telling them i radioed up to road channel >>>>> that this ship of sillies was on the way into an active work area -- >>>>> >>>>> Use abundant caution my friends when on logging roads - they are called >>>>> logging roads due to the reason for creation - they are not called lets go >>>>> camping roads >>>>> >>>>> AND I HAVE not even addressed the multitude of walkers - people on bikes >>>>> - people on horses - or joe racing becky on ATV to see who gets to lake >>>>> first - >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:00 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and helpful guidance! >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:52 AM Harry Hoffman <hhoffman@ip-solutions.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Volks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know several of you travel the logging roads for camping/exploring. >>>>>>> Having just done this last week, for my first time, I was wondering if >>>>>>> anyone has brought trailers along? The roads are really rough so I >>>>>>> wasn't sure how well a trailer would handle the roads. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266 >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS & >>>>> http://www.tvthatworks.com >>>>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com >>>>> LinkedIn - >>>>> >>>>> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work >>>>> at: http://www.prliving.ca/ >>>>> View the growing list of video work at: >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u >>>>> http://vimeo.com/42309497 >>>>> >>>>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> roger whittaker 604.414.6266 >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> PR MARINE SURVEYORS & >>> http://www.tvthatworks.com >>> http://www.tvpowellriver.com >>> LinkedIn - >>> >>> - ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/Explore printed work at: >>> http://www.prliving.ca/ >>> View the growing list of video work at: >>> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u >>> http://vimeo.com/42309497 >>> >>> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt >> >> >> >> -- >> roger whittaker 604.414.6266 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> PR MARINE SURVEYORS & >> http://www.tvthatworks.com >> http://www.tvpowellriver.com >> LinkedIn - >> ca.linkedin.com/pub/roger-whittaker/14/78a/b71/ >> Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/ >> View the growing list of video work at: >> http://www.youtube.com/user/LastonLastof#g/u >> http://vimeo.com/42309497 >> http://www.prpeak.com/articles/2010/11/29/multimedia/video/doc4c62e5f80d228504902172.txt
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