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Subject:Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....
From:Jeff Schwaia
Date:Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:43:40 -0800

Actually, the VW starter does use a Bendix (no Sprag clutch) to engage the starter to the flywheel.  

I've replaced quite a few solenoids over the years and it definitely works to engage the Bendix drive.

Cheers, 

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 6:20 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch

Here is a link with information on the sprag clutch. Check out the link for information on a Bendix drive. The VW starter does not use a Bendix. Ford was probably among the last to use Bendix drives for starters. The giveaway detail is the use of a starter solenoid mounted somewhere on the firewall or fender. Bendix starter drives are also common on small engines like snow blowers and stuff as they are very simple. 

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Don Hanson
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 9:07 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....

OK, I didn't know that starters had slipper-clutches.... It must be that, or something to do with the Bendix (do they still call em that?) spring.
I'll give that a good cleaning soon, when I send off my cherished 5sp for a long overdue rebuild.  Thanks everyone.
On Dec 9, 2015 3:06 PM, "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:

> When the starter cranks the engine a typical cranking speed is around
> 70 rpm. For the brief moment after the engine starts, you release the 
> key, and the solenoid-starter gear retracts and clears the flywheel 
> gear the starter gear gets overdriven by the engine at many times the 
> cranking speed. So that the starter gear does not get broken off or 
> the motor destroyed from centrifugal forces there is a one-way clutch 
> driving the starter gear. If this assembly is dry, corroded, or 
> otherwise messed up you may get that awful noise.  When it really goes 
> bad it could seize or fail to turn the engine during cranking. When 
> you turn the key and the starter turns fast without the engine this is usually the problem.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On 
> Behalf Of Don Hanson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 10:26 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....
>
> I have a starter mystery sound that's been happening since I swapped 
> in my ABA block hybrid inline VW motor about 3yrs ago...I didn't 
> change any of the wiring from the original 1.8 liter rabbit/Jetta/fox 
> motor  and that one didn't make this odd noise sometimes when the 
> motor is started...84 van, 93 ABA jetta block with 92 digifant 8 valve 
> head and 5sp manual transmission....mounted using vanagon diesel stuff....
>
>    Here's the story...when I release the ignition switch after the 
> motor catches and the starter has done it's job....it does seem to 
> crank over completely normally...it lets out this strange kinda 
> honking squelch noise...lasts about 1/4 second and nothing else 
> happens...the van runs normally and the next time I start it, it may 
> again emit the weird noise ....but sometimes it doesn't make that 
> noise...."Honking Squelch" is the best I can do for a 
> description....It sounds similar to what a ping pong ball does when 
> you push it down onto the pingpong table with your paddle......
>
>    First time I fired it up after my swap, I thought..."crap, I did 
> something wrong with the starter...gotta remove the motor and see what 
> that is."....Well, I also forgot the pilot bearing, so I had the motor 
> out again in a couple of days to install that and a new output shaft 
> seal....and I could not find any fault with the starter......So I 
> re-installed it all and again, I still get that strange squelching 
> binding honking noise, sometimes.....
>
>    I figured, at the time of the second install, with the noise 
> unchanged........."OK, I am off to the desert anyhow,  for 2 
> months....If that starter breaks, I will just bump start till I  get 
> another one and stick that in........but it's been starting just fine, 
> other than the weird noise, for over 3yrs now.....
>
>    I thought...."Worn bushing" or something, but I expected that I'd 
> have problems, PDQ....when a starter makes a noise like that, it can't 
> be right...
>
>    Anyone care to make a guess as to what might be causing that noise?   I
> am just curious now....it has not affected the starting of the van now 
> for about 65k miles, but it's still there......It is a "Wrong"
> sound....It sounds like it shouldn't be there, like it must be hurting 
> something.....but nothing dire has happened...it just keeps honking 
> along, starting every time but perhaps 50% of starts I have come with 
> a post script.....that honk after I let loose of the key and the 
> starter stops cranking.....with it's frequent sonic comment after a van start.........
>    Don Hanson
>