The ethanol is really not going to kill our vehicles any more than unleaded
fuel or modern engine oil or even current antifreeze. The ethanol bend helps
reduce pollution as it is a safer oxygenate then MTBE. The oxygenate helps
reduce carbon monoxide emissions particularly for short engine cycles and
cold climate areas. In addition ethanol is a cleaner burning fuel than
gasoline. There is probably also a benefit of the ethanol burning
characteristics reducing the formation of NOx. Yes there is an economy and
performance hit. However the EPA is working to have all of use 15% so we
just have to adapt. Just like all diesel will be 15% bio-diesel soon.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Mike B
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:40 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Bad fuel economy (solution)

I don't see how adding ethanol to gasoline could translate to even "maybe a
little cleaner environment", when the main reason they do it is for
economical reasons.  They water down the gas with something cheaper that's
not as good as gas, then you get the privilege of paying more for it, too!
And because it nets less BTU's of energy to your engine, that means less
miles per gallon of 'fuel' burned, so you end up buying more gallons! This
also means that you're 'net' burning more 'fuel' in total per year.  More
fuel burned times every vehicle on the road, means increased emissions to
the atmosphere! All around, a BAD DEAL!
   And yes, 15 percent ethanol will kill many older vehicles, like our
beloved VW's!  I recently heard about one way to help prolong their
inevitable demise, a fuel additive that uses enzymes to eat the ethanol and
clean out the gunk left in the fuel system;

http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/14/37/lang,en/

Mike B.

On 8/30/2013 10:43 PM, JRodgers wrote:
> Over tiome that difference begins to add up in dollars and cents. AND
> what's worse - it's a false economy on fuel pricing. The only place we
> do gain is MAYBE a little cleaner environment - but we are paying more
> for less. Maybe the diesel folks have it right - even at higher fuel
> prices.
>
> I'm concerned about a move towards more alcohol in the fuel. At 15% it
> will kill most vintage cars like Vanagons.
>
> John
>
> On 8/30/2013 9:19 PM, KIM BRENNAN wrote:
>> FWIW, I've seen (across 7 cars) a 10% reduction in fuel economy for
>> the gas with 10% alcohol.
>> Only in my camper was it a 20% reduction.
>> This evening I confirmed, that with 10% alcohol gas, the fuel economy
>> is only 11-12mpg, as opposed to 15-16mpg on pure gas.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Timmy Evens <monkey_lips@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>
>>> the btu's in a gallon of 10 % ethanol isn't much different than
>>> straight gas.  would not attribute to alcohol. maybe maybe bad O2
>>> sensor?
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>>>
>>>
>>