I think the point that's being missed here, is that a big chunk of the gas
savings in hybrid comes from the fact that the ability to occasionally boost
from the electric motor allows a smaller gas engine.  This is where the real
savings come in, and why hybrids do get better mileage on highways even
though their electric motors aren't getting used much then---their engines
are smaller, so you're not burning fuel in more cylinders than you need.

In other words, you're not really going to much gas by installing a hybrid
system in a vanagon unless you swap out the engine for a smaller one (!!) as
well.  Around town you'll get the benefits of regenerative braking, but I'd
be surprised if that alone bought you more than 2-3mpg or so in around-town
driving.

-Wes

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Jim Akiba <syncrolist@bostig.com> wrote:

> But why actually do you disagree with my statements? Because you have
> a hybrid civic? I'm not really certain I follow your line of argument.
> Lot's of vehicles achieve much higher mpg than a vanagon, this doesn't
> mean their powerplants would do the same *in* a vanagon.  Ever towed
> anything with a prius for instance? You're not supposed to for good
> reason, it's so close it's output limits in stock form that even
> pulling a light motorcycle overworks it into sending the mpg into the
> low 20's.  Try towing with the civic, it might be a telling exercise
> as to what the increase in frontal area and drag of the vanagon might
> do to overall economy, and why it's not worth it for hwy driving.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Ikard <fikard@comcast.net> wrote:
> > I disagree completely with the assessment you gave about the benefits of
> a
> > hybrid for long haul driving. I own a Honda Civic Hybrid and get 45 mpg
> on
> > the freeway at 72 mph. I get about 36 in the city.
> > I have  an 80 Vanagon with a 95 Jetta gas engine in it but it is so new
> that
> > I have not road tested for mileage. Would love to have a hybrid system in
> > it.
> >
> > Charlie Ikard
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> > Of Jim Akiba
> > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:17 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Hybrid Vanagon
> >
> >
> > Keep in mind that a hybrid will be a total waste of time/money  for
> > the vast majority of vanagon owners. Vanagons are typically long-haul
> > vehicles, not city drivers, the hybrid's benefits will be almost
> > completely lost on long haul driving. not to mention that $15k-$25k
> > buys a lot of gas. You *might* be able get 100mpg by installing a
> > 200cc engine and driving at 35, but it's a lot easier/cheaper to get a
> > motorcycle.  Getting the hybrid into a vanagon it totally doable, in
> > fact with a synco front end, you could do an easy(relatively speaking)
> > front/rear electric/gas hybrid.. but it isn't, and likely will never
> > be worth it.
> >
> > Jim Akiba
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:27 PM, M'obeechi <obeechi@runbox.com> wrote:
> >> I don't want to give up on gasoline completely - I'm spending too much
> on
> > the subaru engine (now the second type, a turbo) to walk away... but I
> think
> > the writing is on the wall for a hybrid approach. Not sure if Fuel Cell
> > still stands a change (MBZ hasn't given up on them), and then there are
> > electric and gasoline hybrids... I just want to extend my mileage in the
> 100
> > miles per gallon range... but yeah, waiting it out makes sense...
> However, I
> > do want to be among the first 100 vanagon owners who take the plunge into
> > doing this. Might be tricky figuring out how to squeeze this into the
> > Vanagon.
> >>
> >> From: Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >> Subject: Re: Hybrid Vanagon
> >>
> >>> My initial thought on this is that if you want to get away from
> internal
> >>> combustion entirely or even mostly, than you might want to wait 3-5
> > years.
> >>> There are a number of technologies or approaches that are 'on the
> cusp',
> > so
> >>> to speak, that should have either failed or made a breakthrough by then
> > and
> >>> the practical options should be clearer.
> >>>
> >>> Cya,
> >>> Robert
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "M'obeechi" <obeechi@RUNBOX.COM>
> >>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 5:50 PM
> >>> Subject: Hybrid Vanagon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I was looking up hybrid vehicles. Something in Wikipedia was saying
> > better
> >>> to start with a car that has a manual transmission, that the AT wastes
> >>> energy. But they were talking about a conversion that removes the
> > internal
> >>> combustion engine. I'm interested in maybe one day putting in electric
> >>> motors or what-ever-is-good to supplement the engine in my vanagon
> (which
> > is
> >>> Subaru at this point). Thing is, I have an Automatic and want don't
> want
> > to
> >>> consider a manual.
> >>>
> >>> Can someone point me in the right direction. Has this been discussed or
> > done
> >>> with a vanagon yet. I'm not really thinking propane, I'm in Southern
> >>> California, plus my engine is being switched over to a turbo, and since
> >>> propane needs high compression, I don't think that would make sense.
> >>>
> >>> The paper today said that jet fuel cost has increased 80% this year. I
> > won't
> >>> be surprised if gasoline reaches 25 dollars a gallon within the decade.
> >>>
> >>
> >> ----- End Original Message -----
> >>
> >
>